Talk:Sage

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Contents 1 Twilight Princess 2 Sages Alive or Dead? 3 Sages 3.1 Sage Death 3.2 Sage Timeline Discrepancies 3.3 Sage Marriage / Reproduction 4 Missing section 5 Zelda's tutors? 6 First, Second, etc

[edit] Twilight Princess

"temporary destruction of the Sage of Water" - It wasn't killed? I can't remember having seen this sage after the flashback-cutscene in which it was (temporary) killed.IfIHaveTo 02:12, 12 November 2007 (EST)

It was killed. The only remaining piece of the Sage was its mask and it's symbol was destroyed in the cut scene.

The Sages in Twilight Princess sound a lot like the Twilight beings, you save from becoming Shadow Beasts in the Twilight Realm. A connecting maybe?

What now? I don't see where you're getting the idea that the TP sages are possibly Twilight creatures. Sources? --Ando 14:16, 31 January 2008 (EST)

I think he's refering to the moaning sound both make. Though I agree they might sound similar if that's what you meant, I think it's ilogical to assume a conection based on this alone, seeing how otherwise the sages are completely and utterly unrelated. Onen 18:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sages Alive or Dead?

I've been wondering, before Darunia becomes a sage in OoT, he fights Volvagia. So did he die? I always thought he did and that all the sages died becoming sages, and controlled things through the afterlife?

First of all, you only needed one copy of this section. Now you do have a point. But I don't think that we can ever be sure one way or another.--Matt 01:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Can't be. I don't have any quotes onhand but, I remember something about all of the other Sages have been killed/destroyed by Ganondorf. And then you have the dead sages of WW.Axiomist 03:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the intended meaning was that the sages all died before they awoke. Like Darunia dies when fighting Volvagia, Saria dies in the Forest Temple, etc. There is no evidence either way.--Matt 17:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think they're dead, except for Rauru. In the credits you can see Saria, Ruto, Darunia, Impa, and Nabooru on death mountain. of course this could possible be that when the became sages they were revived, but then why wouldn't Rauru be there? I believe Rauru confirmed he was dead, but I'm not 100% sure... also, if they died before they could awake then why didn't Zelda die? BanaBana 18:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sages

Sages from OoT and their possible descendants

Princess Zelda- Princess Zelda in ALttP

Rauru- Sahasrahla, The Loyal Sage

Saria- Sage in Kakariko Village

Darunia- Sage on Death Mountain

Ruto- ???

Impa- Impa, Sage in Kakariko Village, Sahasrahla

Nabooru- Aginah, Sahasrahla

Okey, I came to some other conclusions, I don't believe the Sages are immortal because if they were, the sages from OoT would still be alive in TP, though I find it hard to believe the Sage of Water was really killed by Gannondork:) in TP. How can you kill a spirit? Lets just leave that one up in the air for a moment.

Secondly, The Sages can marry as Princess Zelda in ALttP is definitely the descendant of the aforementioned Zelda in OoT.

Third, how we got to the etheral sages in TP, I have no idea. I'm just gonna go with what the wiki said on that one.

Fourth, There is so much contradiction with the sages it would be hard to tell fact from fiction. Hopefully Ando found something better:/

P.S. If anyone cares, I found this on Zelda Legends--—Mandi ^(T C) 22:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sage Death

Well, I think that they wouldn't be immortal as well. They're powerful beings, though. No ordinary person could kill them. However, perhaps someone with, say, the Triforce of Power? That might be the edge needed to kill a sage. —Ando (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sage Timeline Discrepancies

The (confirmed) timeline is as such:

   child - MM - TP
OoT-<
   adult - TWW - PH

In the child timeline, the sages were never awakened (young Link didn't awaken the sages in OoT -- adult Link did), which would be why the OoT sages did not appear in TP. Who are the TP sages then? It's a good question, one I've no answer for. In the adult timeline, however, the sages WERE awakened, hence the references to them in TWW.

Not sure about where ALttP might go... :/ —Ando (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

If the Sages of TP are spirts that weren't awakened by Adult Link in OoT why does the Sage of Light look like a spirit? Rauru was "awake" before Link awoke as an Adult. --Jzime—Preceding undated comment added on 16:23, October 30, 2008 (UTC)

The explanation is that the Sages in Twilight Princess are ethereal spirits. When a sage awakens, the spirit is inhabits the his/her body. But there was nothing preventing the Sages in Ocarina of Time from awakening in the child line. Ganondorf messed up the temples in the adult line and that prevented the Sages from hearing the awakening call. In the child line, the Ganondorf was captured before he could screw up the temples. So they all could have awakened. but the spirits would have still been separate. If that doesn't make sense, then blame Nintendo for messing it up.—Matt ^(T C F S) 19:12, October 30, 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sage Marriage / Reproduction

Mmm... Yeah, they'd likely have to in order to pass on the sage lineage, hence several comments made in TWW:
"You are the true heir of the royal family of Hyrule...the last link in the bloodline. You are Princess Zelda." —Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule (The Wind Waker)
"You must find the one who carries on my bloodline... The one who holds this sacred instrument..." —Laruto (The Wind Waker)
Though some might argue that "bloodline" means "the power of the sage", but that makes no sense -- I always figured that "carrying on a bloodline" was done by an actual DNA-related descendant. —Ando (talk) 21:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing section

I kind of feel like this page is missing a section... Princess Zelda! I mean, she's the Seventh Sage/Maiden in ALttP, OoT and FSA and as such is quite a large plot element, yet she barely gets a mention in this article! I've half a mind to create a new section and stub it, thought that would temporarily disqualify this from becoming Featured (and others may think I'm over-stressing the importance of this.) I just think it's a gaping hole in the information... —Adam ^{[ talk ]} 19:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that is leaving out a rather big plot in the article :/ I guess we need to work on that. I would add some information, but I have not played the said games that she appears in. Not sure how much I could add to that. —Mandi ^(T C) 20:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Zelda's tutors?

The Japanese version of Twilight Princess does not mention that the Sages were Zelda's tutors. That was an invention of the translation team. In the Japanese version, Auru was her tutor. Should this be marked as a version discrepancy?Ganondorfdude11 07:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to have to refer you to the Zelda Wiki.org Quality Standards Page. Note the fifth point in the Language and Localization section. This is something that you need to bare in mind throughout all of your edits across Zelda Wiki. Also, this is not a matter that pertains to individual views of canon, but rather to Zelda Wiki policy.- M E L C H I Z E D E K  (TALK) 09:34, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] First, Second, etc

The use of 'First" when referring to the Sages is somewhat ambiguous. It could be the LttP sages, OoT's awakened sages, or the ancient sages referred to by Rauru and that pesky Gossip Stone on Kaepora Gaebora. The page has gone from being a great work to an incredible one, by the way. Axiomist (talk) 17:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Point, I'll change it later to something less ambiguous (been gone all day and have to sleep now). Thanks for the support.IfIHaveTo 20:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)