Talk:Skull Woods (A Link to the Past)

It's called the Skeleton Forest. The dungeon's name is Skull Woods 21:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, you're right! The Wiki mislabeled it as Skull Dungeon, so I guess we're just gonna have to fix that. Dany36 21:59, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Classification
Shouldn't this dungeon also be classified as an earth dungeon. It seems to fit the description in Earth Dungeon, being underground and all


 * I don't think that's enough to consider it an Earth Dungeon. If every underground dungeon was an earth dungeon, there would be a loooot of earth dungeons. 19:58, 4 May 2012 (EDT)


 * Well, that's not the only thing that would make it en earth dungeon. Here's from the earth dungeon classification: "Earth dungeons are known for their dark, damp environment and organic, vegetative architecture". To me, the Skull woods seem to fit that perfectly (granted, the vegetation consist mostly of withered vines, but that just makes it even more "earth" than "forest"). On the other hand, it's currently classified as a forest dungeon, but to me the only thing "foresty" about it is that it happens to be located in a forest, the dungeon itself isn't any more "forest" than it is "earth". Another thing I'm basing my opinion on is that Skull woods has a lot more in common with The Wind Waker's Earth dungeon than it has with any of the other forest dungeons in the series.--Lennholm 09:28, 5 May 2012 (EDT)
 * Frankly, the Earth Temple is more of a "Shadow" dungeon than it is anything else. The fact that this dungeon is so intimately connected to the forest makes it a Forest themed dungeon, and the skulls and skeletons on the walls and the Gibdo make it a Shadow dungeon. Don't forget that the boss is Mothula, another enemy intimately linked to forest dungeons. To be honest, I'm not sure what an "Earth" dungeon even is, personally I think we should scrap it as an element (the only Earth Temples in the series are both Shadow and Fire based), but hey, I'm not fond of classifying dungeons by element in general anyway. Usually it's all in the name, otherwise it's subjective. 13:26, 15 August 2012 (EDT)
 * Yeah, this isn't an "earth dungeon" any more than like half the dungeons in the series are. Also, the the "organic, vegetative architecture" bit should never have been part of the description on the Earth Dungeon page; it didn't describe any of what was actually listed there. I think I've brought this up elsewhere, but I agree with Fizzle: "earth dungeon" is a really poorly defined category and we probably shouldn't be using it as a dungeon classification. It's not a distinct, well-defined dungeon archetype in this series the way "fire dungeon", "water dungeon", "ice dungeon", and the like are. Most of the examples are also fire dungeons, many of the characteristic features overlap with those of fire dungeons, and the few that don't have these traits have very little in common. (Turtle Rock from A Link to the Past, being a rocky, cavern-like dungeon on a mountaintop with visible lava in some areas, is basically just a variation on, or marginal case of, the fire dungeon theme that happens not to have any interactable lava; Cave of No Return is a stage from a game that doesn't have a clear overworld-dungeon distinction and isn't obviously more dungeon-like than a number of other non-dungeon caves in the series; Fortress of Winds is a dungeon based around digging through loose earth with the Mole Mitts and it's not particularly similar to any one other dungeon in the series.)


 * That said, I'm not sure we should do away with the dungeon classifications entirely. There are some very clear recurring types of dungeon in the series, and it may be useful for some purposes to have examples of said archetypes listed somewhere on the wiki, whether it's on these dungeon listing pages or just on pages like Fire and Forest.--Osteoderm Jacket 15:01, 15 August 2012 (EDT)


 * I agree with both of you completely that the "earth dungeon" classification is abstract and arbitrary, but that is why I question why Skull Woods is not classified as such when others are. The skeleton forest is entirely dead and withered and the dungeon consist of underground rooms carved out of the soil, so the classification as a forest dungeon based solely on the fact that it's located in a (dead) forest doesn't seem appropriate to me.
 * I may have completely misunderstood the "earth dungeon" classification but when I think of "earth" I think of something that is very similar to "forest"; they're both closely associated with nature and the only difference is that a "forest dungeon" has living vegetation whereas an "earth dungeon" doesn't. By that reasoning, I can't think of another dungeon in the entire series that deserves the "earth dungeon" classification (rather than the "forest dungeon" classification) more than Skull Woods. --Lennholm 13:59, 26 August 2012 (EDT)

From the Earth Dungeon page: "Obstacles may include rolling rocks and fragile terrain and walls. Puzzles may involve digging, breaking rocks, or otherwise manipulating earth or stone." As far I as know, Skull Dungeon has no such puzzles to speak of, and puzzles are fairly important when it comes to deciding themes. That being said, I don't think a few withered vines makes it forest-themed either. It was decided a long time ago that themes should be determined by a dungeon's interior, not its surroundings (see disclaimer), however tempting.

I'm of the mentality that if the theme isn't stupid obvious to practically everyone, there isn't one. I would rather we not classify any of the questionable ones and have peace of mind knowing that when we do classify dungeons, we're being 100% accurate. 09:34, 27 August 2012 (EDT)


 * Then I have to ask, why is half of the dungeons on the list of earth dungeons listed as such at all? Is Turtle Rock listed as such based solely on the fact that it has rocky walls? What in Dodongo's Cavern fit any of the things listed for an earth dungeon? What makes Dragon Roost Cavern anything other than simply a fire dungeon? Same question for Cave of Flames. Is the Earth temple in Skyward Sword called an earth dungeon beacuse of a single obstacle involving rolling rocks?
 * There doesn't appear to be any dungeon that fits more than one or two of the things listed in the specification of "earth dungeon". If this is sufficient for them, why not for Skull Woods ("dark subterranean environment and natural rocky walls and floor", "fragile terrain and walls")? Also, if we want to be consistent, why don't we remove the "forest dungeon" classification from Skull Woods aswell since it doesn't fit anything in the specification for a "forest dungeon". Heck, it even fits "fire dungeon" more considering how many fire based enemies it contains?--Lennholm 11:19, 27 August 2012 (EDT)


 * That's what I was getting at, Lenholm. It shouldn't be listed as forest themed or earth themed. And you're absolutely right about the earth dungeons. That's why Fizzle and Osteo were talking about scrapping it entirely. At this point I agree with them. 11:57, 27 August 2012 (EDT)


 * I'm not against removing other categories, just Earth is always the one that bugs me since it was never very specific and the only Earth Temples in the game are Shadow and Fire Temples really. Also Wind, while obvious, gets applied to the wrong dungeons at times. Not every tower is a Wind dungeon, for example. I understand some dungeons are more "cave-like" than others, but given that the only Earth Temples in the game aren't really any more cave like than any other dungeon, I don't think "cave-like" applies to "Earth" in the Zelda series. Nothing specific applies to "Earth", annoyingly. It was pretty much introduced to simply be an opposite to Wind, and the Wind Temple was Forest themed anyway, so go figure. Damn you Wind Waker for your infamously unfinished second half! 18:30, 27 August 2012 (EDT)