Talk:Challenges

The three day challenge is entire possible without using any glitches or cheating devices. I know I've done it the only irregular thing you need is the inverted song of time Don Lark Kiin 18:35, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * It can't be done. Even with the Inverted Song of Time and with only doing what is absolutely necessary, you'd be very hard-pressed just to get into the first dungeon before dusk on the first day, let alone all the way through the second dungeon, which would be required at least to the point of the Fire Arrows to get access to Powder Keg in order to get Epona in time. You need Epona to legally get to the last two dungeons. It just can't be done. Not without a glitch or cheat, or an extra three day cycle. Cheats like the moon jump hack would let you continue without Epona and finish all four dungeons in three days and nights. We don't put these challenges on here without first testing them. 18:44, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Getting into Great Bay without Epona is easy enough (plant bomb, become Goron Link, and then Ground Pound above the explosion for a boost over the fence.), but I don't know how you would get into Ikana without her (Garo's Mask, yeah?). Would you care to spell out your methods? 18:48, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well that bomb and Goron Link method would be a glitch. 18:50, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Glitch? Really? Not at all; an exploitation of an in-game mechanism, maybe, but it's a perfectly unaltered, natural way to get over the fence that is possible due to oversight. Just like you can snag the tree with your hookshot in Ikana instead of freezing the Octoroks. But that's neither here nor there, is it? 19:03, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well... an unintended exploitation of an in-game mechanism is pretty much the very definition of a glitch. 19:41, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I disagree, but... as I said, neither here nor there, because the run being discussed involves getting Epona on the 1st day anyway. 19:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I have reached the first dungeon by ten o clock before. It is entire possible as long as you don't finish the first and second dungeons leaving after getting the bow and fire arrow then returning later on in the cycle. I have done it multiple times before and never used a single glitch or hack. Try it. It is entirely possible Don Lark Kiin 18:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC) And to prove you can get a Epona before the first first day here is a video of some one doing it,
 * That video is not proof. There's nothing saying that wasn't on another three-day cycle or on one that was emulator hacked to alter the clock. Since it starts right at Milk Road through an Owl Statue save. 19:41, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then watch the other six parts which clearly shows how he or she gets to that point and how much time it takes him or her. Don Lark Kiin 19:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm watching the entire series right now (done on the GCN version). Checking validity and whatnot. This guy is scaring me. Very efficient. But until everyone agrees, Don Lark Kiin, you should probably stop reverting edits. =) It's liable to cause problems. If you convince everybody, it'll get changed. Don't you worry. =) (The whole series can be found at )  19:44, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

It really isn't as hard as people believe it is Don Lark Kiin 19:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The thing about videos in parts, is that it's really, really easy to just tweak things around to make it look like you did things better than you actually did. Especially on an emulator which is probably what these videos are made with. It's really easy to alter the clock's speed with a simple code, and to use save states to retry things if a mistake is made, which is basically a cheat too. I know that sites that make video guides sometimes make different videos of a walkthrough on separate plays, but they don't do that to make themselves look fast or perfect, but to have the clarity of the guide to be good so people can understand it. 19:49, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Your very sceptical. Try it yourself. Or get a stop watch and watch the videos. Even if it is done abusing save states it still mean's it's possible to do Don Lark Kiin 19:59, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * With all due respect, we can't just allow anything and everything that someone says is true on our articles; else we would have all sorts of weird theories ;) 20:08, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Aha but here I'm removing something that some one is saying is true with no further claims to prevent such things Don Lark Kiin 20:13, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * But.. the only one saying it is true is you, sir ;) It's really not any different from some odd theory that only one person is backing to be true without real evidence. 20:30, June 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * BUT let's not look like fools by disregarding him if what he says has some merit; I think it would be smart to test some of these things (and finish watching the series) before writing the claim off. I was going to try getting Epona on the first day myself later this evening... 21:10, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: So I tried getting Epona on the first day, and thanks to a few blundering errors on my part, I didn't make it to Romani Ranch until about 8PM on the first day. That having been said, I believe it's MORE than possible to get to Epona with time to spare if you don't wander around like a blasted idiot like I did (I mean running out of bombs on the way to the Mountain Village? Really? I felt like such a neophyte). In addition, while I haven't watched the entire series (I do have some college essays I should be writing right now =P) I do think that the link I provided to a string of videos documenting this challenge is legitimate based on my own experiences.
 * As far as any PROOF I could provide, my digital camera can only run for 45 minutes before running out of space, so I don't know what else I can give you besides my word/opinion, since a video with any breaks (like to snip out cutscenes) would apparently be invalid. But I think to say on our wiki that this challenge is impossible without glitches would be inaccurate. I'd like to open this up for further discussion. 14:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Embyr, you have a valid point. I could try to do the challenge myself, but I'm not sure I'd be able to. Especially when you have to get Epona on day 1 X_X Anyways, I think that until we can get some documented proof that it can be done without glitching, we'll have to leave it up. We don't know if it's impossible without glitching. So we should probably open this up for further discussion, like Embyr suggested. 15:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think doing it ourselves is going to be a bit of an on-going struggle... this guy has every move planned out to the letter, it's a little dizzying. It appears he did this run on his Gamecube, taped it on VHS, and then later converted it digitally. That's what I gather anyway. I don't think these have been tampered with, I really don't. He's appears to be just that awesome. He makes brilliant use of his time. Never doubles-back. If someone else wants to volunteer to put all the time and effort into completing this and documenting it themselves, they can... but I'm too busy. Honestly I think everyone should take a look at this string. It seems ridiculous for someone to go through all the trouble of doing this if it's fabricated (and there are errors within, so while it's impressive it isn't flawless). I'm not saying it's the final word; I'm just saying take a look, if you haven't already. EDIT: I do realize that he admits to using a glitch in the first 3 day cycle to get an extra piece of heart, but it's unnecessary and I got over 600 Rupees without using glitches on the first cycle, so. No problem there, for me. Edited 15:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You'd be surprised what people would go through just to get some fame. There is more than the Epona hurdle to get past. There's also the well sequence. The lack of the proper amount of bottles will vastly increase the amount of time required to complete it. It's not the only thing, the reduced amount of heart containers will make you take fewer risks, lengthening the time you take to finish it.And the physical distance required to travel does take time. And as far as doubling back, you have to many times. Especially for the Well portion, without enough bottles it will require a lot of doubling back. This "challenge" has so many holes in it that it will be next to impossible to prove. A lot of people like to say they did it, just because it gives them fame and attention. Fabrications are rather easy to make and they're widespread. 16:20, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Normally I appreciate your cynicism, Matt, but I think you're being dismissive and closed-minded in this case. I'm actually on the Well segment right now; the only items you need are 5 Magic Beans, 10 Deku Nuts, 10 Bombs, a Fish, a Bottle of Milk, and a Big Poe. And he has three bottles. If you had the dedication to watch the entire string, you wouldn't be restrained in your understanding by your own experiences, which are inadequate in this case. I'm sorry you weren't the one to figure it out, but that's no reason to be so dismissive. 16:34, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Just because someone does not agree with you doesn't mean you can call them close-minded. I'm a bit of skeptic, yes. This issue has been a very popular thing to fabricate. What you have to understand that just because there's a video of something doesn't mean it is totally true. Video editing software has been around for a very long time. The N64 Zelda games have been wildly popular to make extraordinary, false claims in just for some fame and glory. Such as getting the Triforce and the like. You can't get three bottles on one cycle without glitches or cheats and still have enough time to finish the levels. All of them after the first one require you to spend a very long time on sidequests, time you can't afford. 16:48, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * To quote a fellow editor: "If I see a problem with how someone is acting, I will not sugar-coat it! I will not lie to spare someone's feelings. That would only harm him/her more in the long run. I am well-known for being brutally honest. This is my nature. Nothing will ever change that. If anyone is ever offended by this, just remember that offense is never intended." =)
 * Matt, I appreciate that you want proof. But your objections have no foundation; they appear to be rooted in mere bias. Either watch the videos (even though they may not be good enough for you) so we can discuss this on the same plane, or leave the discussion alone until such time that you can contribute positively instead of dismissing the idea. =\ FYI: The three bottles acquired were: The Red Potion for Koume, the Gold Dust from the Goron Races (which are open anyway), and the Beaver Races (which take 2 minutes). I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying it appears possible! 17:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm used to being accused of having no foundation for objections. I'm not that kind of person. I don't object things just because I don't like something. Many people like to think that to make themselves feel better, but that's just not the case. I did see some of the video. It was largely too good to be true. Things that look too good to be true usually are. It was too perfect. Too flawless, not realistic. I don't blindly believe something just because some guy with a video tells me it's real. This is kind of like the real world example of the Loch Ness Monster, many people like to say they saw it and many are quick to believe videos and pictures of it even though they're most likely fakes or misidentifications. This challenge is essentially a myth. Myths are difficult to prove to the satisfaction of everyone.
 * You should really stay away from talking down to people like that, it's really not acceptable behavior. We do have rules against that. 17:19, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Matt, I'm sorry if I injured your pride. But you aren't even giving this a chance. I personally think it's possible. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean others can't. And I'm just going to add one more thing: You expect people to be able to take your "blunt honesty" but you don't accept the same from others. This is a common phenomenon. I'm not trying to talk down to you. I'm trying to be as honest as you proclaim yourself to be. Please don't take it personally and try to focus on the matter at hand. 18:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But just because it's on video we can't dismiss it. Let's give it the benefit of the doubt. I'm watching it right now and it's pretty impressive. Yeah, it might be too good to be true, but some things ARE too good and they ARE true! Dany36 16:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Things like....... =P. In any case, this 3-day challenge could be covered in the Myths article; not because I don't believe in it (actually, I'm not interested in even trying it), but because one could cover the flaws and virtues of trying the challenge. --K2L 17:36, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea. I'm willing to believe in it, actually. While the video is far from perfect (the fight against Twinmold was just TERRIBLE!!), I'm gonna give it the benefit of the doubt. :) Some people are just darn good Zelda players (like TSA). Dany36 17:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * So where does this leave the Challenges blurb on it being impossible? 18:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. If the majority agrees, then it could be changed to "Almost impossible" or something like that, haha, with a link to the video proof. Other suggestions are welcome. :P Dany36 18:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * How about, "Fantastically Difficult"! lol... And the incredibly tedious planning involved should definitely be mentioned. This isn't something you can sit down and do without charting your course in detail beforehand. 18:34, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

A mention of the luck factor too. Other challenges need some reliance on luck as well. Conditions have to be just right, those kind of things are really dependent on chance as well as skill. 18:42, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well if we're going to start mentioning luck factors, we definitely have to bring that up for the Cave of Ordeals section. Three hearts, wooden shield, and Zora Armor? Um... That's insane. 19:03, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If people would other then Embyr would just try to do it you will find it is a lot easier then you'd think. Getting Epona is by far the hardest part after that the challenge is practically easy. You dont even need three bottles (personally I dont get the beaver bottle when doing the challenge and you only need two for the well by giving the Gidbo the fish before getting the Big Poe). with two bottles the pirates fortress only takes two trips as does the eel site. Heck you can even get the gilded sword if you want during the challenge (but doing so can make it awkward when you get to Ikana since you wont be able to hit the owl statue if your sword is still being forged). I have a file that is right below the clock tower on the final day. If I made a video on a digital camera that showed my own file at the clock tower on the final day with all boss remains and then reset it and thus going back to the first day, would you believe me then?Don Lark Kiin 19:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It actually wasn't as crazy as I thought it was at first; I mean yeah getting to Epona on time is tough, but in that string of videos that guy finished all four temples just after the night of the Second Day. He had a day and a half to spare! With practice I can see how memorizing the order of things (and skipping unessentials) would be easy. 21:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

No one is saying this is impossible anymore except Matt who isn't giving any good reasons why it cant be done, wont watch the videos showing how it can be done or attempt to do it himself, Do I have permission to change the page now? Don Lark Kiin 22:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I think so, yes. Dany36 22:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Zelda II Low Stats Challenge
As I learend from the above conversation, there are a lot of sceptical people in the world so I am sourcing my edit by linking to the first in a string of videos made by myself proving this challenge is entirely possible http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUODp7jm27E&list=PL09FC2E98D93DF9F7&index=1&feature=plpp_video Don Lark Kiin 09:04, 18 January 2012 (EST)


 * Thanks for the link, it's much appreciated. It makes our lives a lot easier when people confirm their own statements, instead of us having to do the digging. 14:50, 23 January 2012 (EST)

Three Heart Challenge Clarification
I noticed some disagreement about Skyward Sword and the meaning of "three heart challenge." We have a few options, here: Of course, there could be more options, but I'm just tossing a few out there. What's everyone think? 13:07, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Note that it cannot be done in SS because Link begins with six hearts.
 * 2) Change the name of the challenge to minimum heart challenge.
 * 3) Make a clarification that the point is to not increase Link's hearts and therefore include SS.