Talk:Minish World/Archive 1

Hm. I seem to remember it being stated clearly in The Minish Cap, multiple times, that the Minish 'World' is a separate realm from Hyrule, and that some Minish simply choose to live in the human world. I'd like to request revision or deletion of the article; preferably revision, though. --Protera 09:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I take it you're referring to statements such as:
 * As opposed to what's stated in the article:
 * "The term does not imply a seperate world as the Minish are in fact in Hyrule. It merely refers to the shrunken perspective of the Minish. "
 * It seems that once contradcts the other, but from the in-game text, it never seems to be made entirely clear what the nature of the Minish World is. I'd agree that the article be revised to reflect this uncertain nature. 10:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems that once contradcts the other, but from the in-game text, it never seems to be made entirely clear what the nature of the Minish World is. I'd agree that the article be revised to reflect this uncertain nature. 10:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see how this could be a seperate page in itself. As already stated, the "Minish World" is basically just Hyrule from the perspective of the Minish.  Everything it has in it is already on the Minish Cap pages (game, and/or item.)  Therefore, I don't think the wiki needs this.  If the information is not on the Minish Cap page (which ever one it should go to), then I say the information gets moved, and the page gets deleted.   19:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There's an article for the separate realm the Minish came from: Picori World. Makar Rocks 20:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, because that is a separate realm. Hyrule, and the "Minish World" are not separate realms.  01:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I know. I was pointing out that there is already an article about what Protera and Adam were talking about. --Makar Rocks 04:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's basically just Hyrule, but I don't see the pages being eliminated. However the two should be merged, I think it's just a matter of the correct name from here. 02:57, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Very confusing. The article should probably say something about the confusing nature of the Minish/Picori world.  Also, they should be merged.  Although, that might generate more confusion...  --Ionizer 10:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Lets figure something out with these tiny articles, its been three months! I support the merge, but the resulting article name would be the only question... like Lesser Worlds, Mini-Worlds, something similar - neither article should be deleted. There should just be clear markers of what the Picori World is in comparison to that of the Minish in one article. 02:22, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Well one of these get to be a page and 2 get to be a redirect. We just need a handful of quotes to determine which is the official name. 17:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry I didn't realize we had a page for this particular place, but I believe the proper term according to the game I believe is the "Minish Realm". I don't remember exactly where it is said in the game, but I am certain I remember it being called that within the game at some point, it's just been a while since I've played that particular game. Link87 17:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No big deal, I'm sure there's a quote for each of the terms. :p 17:55, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe either Ezlo or Potho call it the "Minish Realm" in the game, I'd have to play it through again to know which or to see the quotes from the game to know which one said it. Link87 18:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The big 'G' says:
 * Results 1 - 10 of about 151 for "picori world"
 * Results 1 - 10 of about 313 for "minish realm"
 * Results 1 - 10 of about 4,340 for "minish world"
 * If we were to go on that alone, it would be "Minish World". Not very scientific, I know. 09:06, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The proper term in the game though is the "Minish Realm", and as we're an encyclopedia, we need to follow the proper name, not what everyone thinks it might be. Searches on google may come from people who don't follow the games enough to know the proper title. Link87 15:13, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this file a reliable source? If so, we're looking at "Minish World", I think. 15:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In the game, it is called "Minish Realm" at some point. I'd have to see the text dump to see who says it, but the game is the one thing that trumps other sources. There is also a difference between the "Minish Realm" and the "Minish World", the "Minish World" could refer to Hyrule as it is viewed by the Minish while the "Minish Realm" is their actual homeland that is separate from Hyrule. That's how I've always viewed it ever since the game's release in 2005. That source is also European, that is not the American text, and on here we go by the American text of the game. Link87 15:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Text dumps. Is it possible that your memory is deceiving you? 15:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I highly doubt it, as I tend to remember things to the word to be honest. Ezlo at one point says "Welcome to the world through the eyes of the Minish", hence the term "Minish World" for Hyrule through their eyes. But at some point in the game, their actual homeland is referred to as the "Minish Realm", I'm almost 100% positive on that. Link87 15:28, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You asked for a text dump, I showed you a text dump. If you believe that the text dump is inaccurate then you should take that up with the person who extracted it. 15:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have time to run through the whole thing right now as I'm at work, and I will eventually. But I stand by the fact that it is called the "Minish Realm", and the fact that even the other wiki acknowledges that is another point of proof that it is. So I shall go through and find the exact quote that references it as that, but it's not just "Minish World" as far as I'm aware. I also don't see you proving that their homeland is referred to as the "Minish World" either, where is the exact quote referencing that separate place under that name? Link87 15:32, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I searched for the word "realm" in the file. There are four occurrences. One, it is clear from context, refers to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish. One refers to the Elemental Sanctuary. One refers to the realm of Hyrule. One is a witticism provided by one of the Blade Brothers ("Your training must continue within the realm of your MIND..."). Conversely, the string "Minish World" occurs in "The elemental sanctuary exists between the human world and the Minish world." and "The sanctuary is a strange place that borders the human and Minish worlds." and "The sanctuary is a strange realm, trapped between two worlds. It is the bridge between the Minish world and the human world." and "The portal linking us to the Minish world opens only once every 100 years.". It also occurs in a couple of other places where it refers to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish. 15:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The "Minish World" is Hyrule through the eyes of the Minish, and the "Minish Realm" refers to their actual homeland, as I stated previously. The terms "world" and "realm" are also synonymous with each other at times, but the proper name of their actual homeland is the "Minish Realm". That is how the two are distinguished by the community and the game developers. That is why I propose keeping the two separate so we have one referring to Hyrule through their eyes and the other as their homeland. Link87 16:03, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've shown you four quotes where "Minish World" is used to refer to their homeland. Please show me 1 quote where "Minish Realm" is used for that purpose. 16:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You've shown me no quote that gives the name of their homeland to be the "Minish World", you've shown me four quotes that only use the word "world" in general, not as a title, and from a text dump that is almost certainly incomplete as none can be guaranteed to have every single quote from an entire game, though they can get a good number of them. I will have to replay the game most likely to know exactly who and where it was specifically called the "Minish Realm", but I am certain that it was, just as certain as I was that the portal was called the "Minish Door". For your information as well, take a look at this: . Now why would another entire wiki be calling it "Minish Realm" if the term had never been heard of?? Link87 16:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay Chris, you're right, it's Minish Realm. 16:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you happen to find the quote already that says it? Or do I need to replay the game to learn exactly who said it? It may have been Ezlo, Potho, or the storyteller at the Picori Festival. I remember that it was someone that either was talking about the history of the Minish or that was from the Minish Realm itself. I genuinely want to know what it was myself, because I remember hearing it but I just can't remember who exactly because it's been so long since I played TMC. Link87 16:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikia isn't exactly a reliable source, they have many many fanon titled articles. I checked the game manual, there was a reference to world but not Minish/Picori World as a title. I don't think I've ever heard of it being called a separate realm, nor do the characteristics of it fit much. But I'll give it time to see what you can find. 03:27, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm willing to move the page to "Minish World" until we have a quote in hand that says otherwise, but I know one exits someplace, and I'll kick myself when I come across it again over the holiday season when I actually have the time to play the game again after a two-year long reprieve from that game. Link87 08:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Text dumps are your friend. Ezlo calls it the Minish World numerous times in the game, but the phrase "Minish Realm" does not exist at all. Ganondorfdude11 08:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I remain skeptical of anything but the game. I just have gut feeling I've seen an official title for the place that stated it to be "Minish Realm", while in reality no true capitalized title of "Minish World" exists by the same token at present. The use of the word "world" is used as a noun, not a title, in the quotes featured in this text dump. No matter, I am willing to go with the current setup until such time that we have confirmation of the true title, which is all I'm really interested in. Link87 23:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, Chris, I agree with that, though it does seem a bit preposterous to replay an entire game just to look for a suitable article title. Either title works, to be honest, and conveys a similar enough message, especially since now they are both included in the article. So lets just roll with it! 21:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I know Cip, but I've been meaning to replay it anyway, though it'll probably be sometime over the holidays after Spirit Tracks. But as you said, both are included in the article now, so that's that really. I agree we should just leave it as it is, b/c it addresses both names and establishes that no official title has at present been noted. Link87 22:01, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe I found what you were looking for, Chris. Using this site here which is by far the most comprehensive text dump on The Minish Cap I have seen, the realm of the Minish is referred to once as the world of the Minish (I placed it as a reference in the article already), but just like "Minish World", it is also not spoken of as "Minish Realm", flat out and frank like you had wished. Hence, their placement in the article should stay shared, since neither is explicitly sourced as a direct name. =) 05:08, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I knew it, I knew it! I knew I'd seen it referred to in that manner, even if not a direct name I knew I had seen the actual plane from which they came referred to as a "realm". Where exactly does it say that quote occurs within the game?? I want to know, so I can slap my forehead and finally remember where it occurred. Lol. But seriously, I do want to know where it was in the game so I won't forget it later on. Thanks a bunch Cip. Link87 10:36, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry to disappoint, but the quote that Cipriano is referring to is "You who desire to enter the realm of the Minish, seek out the hidden portal. Offer up your song at the portal's base, and be guided to the world below." and it is a quote by Ezlo, shortly after Link meets him, instructing him on how to become small so that he can enter the Minish Village. When I updated this page at 15:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC), that was the quote that I was referring to when I said "it is clear from context, refers to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish". 10:52, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the more interesting fact here is that I was right in saying that a text dump is not always complete. This quote was not in the first text dump you pressed, so while what you say could be true, there is no way of proving there does not exist an instance of it being referred to as a "realm", as the term was used here. I trust my own instincts over incomplete text dumps, and now I have the proof in hand that that's what I should have done from the start. No text dump is going to be 100% complete, and to suggest so has been debunked by this instance. Link87 11:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "This quote was not in the first text dump you pressed" - yes it was. In fact, if you look at the links, you'll see that the text dump that Cipriano linked is exactly the same one that I linked. 11:04, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No it was not. It was not in the first one, we all looked, and not even you could find it. I was guaranteed that no additional text existed, and yet here we find that to be false. Also, if you knew this instance of the term's usage existed, then why did you not reveal this before? If what you say is true, then they have changed the text dump recently, meaning that there IS additional text they did not include previously. But no, this quote was not in that text dump before. Ax and I searched the whole thing, and this quote was not there. Link87 11:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've highlighted the relevant paragraphs in black, if you wish to verify that the links are identical. If you believe that the text dump has been changed lately then that's something that you'd need to take up with the admins at Zelda Legends, though the page says "Last Updated Oct 9 2005", for what it's worth. 11:18, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and with respect to "It was not in the first one, we all looked, and not even you could find it.", please go back and re-read my entry of 15:39, 20 November 2009. I remarked at the time that the word "realm" appears in the file four times - you can verify for yourself that this is still true. 11:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't "think", I know it's been changed. We all used the ctrl+f feature to look through it, and this quote did not appear anywhere in that text dump before. So your assertion that no additional text existed has indeed been debunked. You have also failed to answer my question: If you knew this quote existed and where it was used, why did you not speak up before about it? The text dump has been changed, I have no doubt that's the case, and all of us that searched it before, including Ax, Cip and myself can attest that this quote was not there previously. Link87 11:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "If you knew this quote existed and where it was used, why did you not speak up before about it?" - I did. 11:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL, no you didn't. You guaranteed me, along with Ax, that the only quote resembling this was the one about the Elemental Sanctuary, or do you not remember that? I know it's been changed b/c that's what Ax told me, and I confirmed it for myself at the time that the text dump only had the sanctuary quote. Link87 11:27, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see what's happened here. You're confusing this game script which I posted at 15:20, 20 November 2009 with the text dump which I posted 6 minutes later. It's true that the game script does not contain this quote, but that's because (and I quote from the introduction of the game script) "This guide [...] does not contain every single piece of text spoken by every character in the game; it only details what you have to read to progress through the game from start to finish." The text dump, by contrast, is, always was, and always will be, a complete and comprehensive document of all the in-game text. I guess you never actually got round to reading it. 11:34, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh and sorry to disappoint, but you got your facts mixed up: you never told me "realm" appeared four times, but "world" did. "You've shown me no quote that gives the name of their homeland to be the "Minish World", you've shown me four quotes that only use the word "world" in general..." This was my response to you at the time. So no, we were talking about the word "world" at the time, not "realm". "I've shown you four quotes where "Minish World" is used to refer to their homeland. Please show me 1 quote where "Minish Realm" is used for that purpose. • Pete ♪ | ♫ 16:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)" That was your previous statement preceding my response as well. Link87 11:31, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Please, for goodness' sake, re-read my entry of 15:39, 20 November 2009 before you post anything else. 11:34, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't you re-read what everyone said? You're asserting we were talking about "realm" when I've shown you we were talking about "world". The text dump has been changed, there's no doubt about that. This quote could not be found before, and we all agreed at the time that the only quote resembling this was the one about the Elemental Sanctuary. Nothing you try to say is going to change that. Sorry Pete, I don't mean to argue or jade you in any way, but I have seen with my own eyes now that a text dump, while good, is not complete. I was told by all that there was no further use of the term "realm", yet we've found one here that wasn't there previously. Sorry but no amount of arguing or backtracking is going to change what you'd suggested at the time as that text dump stood then. Link87 11:39, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added a dark green highlight to the paragraph that you need to re-read this time. I really have nothing more that I can add to that. 11:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And here you go, you don't even once state anything about this quote in the post you're referring to: Okay, I searched for the word "realm" in the file. There are four occurrences. One, it is clear from context, refers to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish.  One refers to the Elemental Sanctuary. One refers to the realm of Hyrule. One is a witticism provided by one of the Blade Brothers ("Your training must continue within the realm of your MIND..."). Conversely, the string "Minish World" occurs in "The elemental sanctuary exists between the human world and the Minish world." and "The sanctuary is a strange place that borders the human and Minish worlds." and "The sanctuary is a strange realm, trapped between two worlds. It is the bridge between the Minish world and the human world." and "The portal linking us to the Minish world opens only once every 100 years.". It also occurs in a couple of other places where it refers to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish. • Pete ♪ | ♫ 15:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)'' Not one mention of this particular quote at all, once again proving the text dump was different at the time. Link87 11:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, I've used highlighting to indicate the bit where I was referring to the quote in question. Though you'll have to take my word for that, as at the time it didn't feel like it was necessary to copy-paste it in. 11:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't intend to call anyone out Pete, but no, this quote was not there previously. Ax even told me at the time the only time within that text dump that he could find "realm" used in that context was about the Elemental Sanctuary. And if this quote had been there previously one of us would have found it and posted it. Sorry, but my memory is not so bad that I can't remember something that happened just a couple of weeks ago.
 * In which case I am 100% certain that Ax was looking at the game script, not the text dump. He can verify this when he comes online. 12:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The text dump has been changed, and you never once said anything about this particular quote specifically, which would've changed the course of the dialogue a lot. If you knew this instance of the word's usage existed, why did you not post it word-for-word at the time? You did all the others, so why not this one if it was indeed there? Link87 11:56, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Because at the time we were looking for examples of quotes that refer to the homeland of the Minish, and this was not one of them, so was not relevant. 12:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it was, b/c this proves without a doubt now that there possibly is additional text that the text dump does not contain. Ax and I were both looking at the text dump, the very one you're now pointing to, and neither of us could find a quote that looked like this. All I saw (and according to what he said to me himself too) was the quote about the Elemental Sanctuary that vaguely resembled one like I'd said I'd seen. I am just now highly skeptical of such claims that your text dump is fully accurate or complete, b/c I know I sure didn't see this quote there before, and I would have been onto it then too, as would have been Ax or anyone else trying to help search it. He told me and even showed me how to search through the text dump with that search feature, so I am certain we were both looking at the same thing. Link87 15:19, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said before, I am 100% certain that the two of you were looking at the game script, not the text dump. Ax can verify this when he comes online. 15:40, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

According to what you've said, the text dump and the game text should be identical, so what difference would it make? Or are you admitting there's differences between the two now, which is exactly my point? I was looking at the text dump and so was he, we both searched through it at the time, and no quote like this appeared on my radar screen. And I looked it over several times. Link87 15:47, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The text dump and the game text are identical. But the game script hosted at gamefaqs.com is not the same as a text dump - it just contains the plot-essential parts of the game text. Please re-read the paragraph that I posted at 11:34, 2 December 2009 (highlighted in dark green). 15:54, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever to me. What difference would that make, if you're saying all should be identical? The quotes coming from the game script and the text dump should be the same according to what you've said, and now you're admitting there are differences between them, which you made no mention of before. Sorry but I remain unconvinced of your argument b/c there's too many holes in it.
 * I'm not saying that they should all be identical. I'm saying that the text dump will be the same as the in-game text because it was ripped directly from the ROM, with nothing excluded. The game script hosted at gamefaqs.com, however, is only a subset of the in-game text. If you read the introduction to it, it will explain why. Or you can just read the paragraph highlighted in dark green, which I've pointed you to repeatedly, where I've helpfully pasted the section from the introduction of the game script which explains why it's only a subset of the in-game text. I've never claimed that the game script was comprehensive (unless you consider the question "Is this file a reliable source?" to represent some such claim). 16:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The quote was not there before, and I personally searched for such quotes in the text dump weeks ago, and this one was not there. Now all of a sudden, it pops up, and you're still trying to convince me that it was when you even asked "Show me 1 instance where "Minish Realm" is used" yet you claim to have known about this passage? Sorry but I don't follow. Ax and I searched the text dump, and he told me all he saw was the quote about the sanctuary that was close to what I'd said. I searched through it and came to the same conclusion that it wasn't there. So sorry, but I remain unconvinced of such claims. Link87 15:58, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * For the third time, I am 100% certain that the two of you were looking at the game script, not the text dump. Ax can verify this when he comes online. 16:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, my full quote was "I've shown you four quotes where "Minish World" is used to refer to their homeland. Please show me 1 quote where "Minish Realm" is used for that purpose.". I already had an instance where "realm" was used to refer to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish - I was challenging you to find an example where it is used to refer to their homeworld. 16:11, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No you weren't, otherwise you would have said something about this quote if you really knew about it. You have given me conflicting stories I'm afraid, and I just am not convinced that the quote was there before. I looked for it in the text dump, I was even directed there by you if you will remember correctly. I looked through the text dump, and this quote was not present at that time. Ax even said the only quote he could find at the time too was about the sanctuary. And I wasn't aware you're able to predict what we were looking at, since you sound so certain that we were looking at the script (which according to what I've been told should yield the same quotes) and not the text dump, despite the fact that the only two people that would know are me and Ax. Link87 16:24, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no reply that I can give to this which wouldn't be me repeating something I've already written. I'm concerned that you still don't understand the difference between the text dump and the game script, which is leaving me a bit dismayed, because I have tried to explain it to you a number of times now. 16:35, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry but as I said I remain unconvinced by such arguments. You're changing your story, first you told me there would be no difference between the script or the text originally, and now you're trying to tell me they're different. Sorry but it's just not adding up. Link87 16:48, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * For the second time, I've never claimed that the game script was comprehensive (unless you consider the question "Is this file a reliable source?" to represent some such claim). 16:52, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what everyone's been saying, and you did not dispute it before that the text dump was 100% complete at that time. I remain unconvinced that this text dump is 100% complete, b/c this quote was not present before, otherwise we would've discussed it earlier. Link87 17:16, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Sorry, if I had seen someone claiming that the game script was 100% complete, rest assured that I would have corrected them. 17:30, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying anyone's lied persay, but I am saying that the text dump, contrary to popular belief, is not always 100% accurate or complete, despite what others have suggested. I've been playing TMC these last few days, and I've noticed several differences in the dialogue used in the game and that featured in the text dump. Sporadic yes, but different nonetheless. The basic premise is that this text dump is not fool-proof and that there is a possibility that it may not contain all that it should. Link87 18:04, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * In the interest of time, life, hair, and youth, lets end this long-winded argument. I'm getting forehead wrinkles just reading this! =) From an outside perspective, here is what I feel is in the best interest of this page:


 * 1) Keep both titles on the page as it is right now. As we've seen in many posts above, neither "Minish Realm" or "Minish World" has been found in several text dumps, and even though I admire your determination to shine light on the truth, Chris, read #2.
 * 2) Both names achieve the same overall effect. Although the truth is important, only the extreme hardcore gamer will pick a bone with one title over the other, since essentially, they are referenced in similar circumstances and situations, and never exclusively, at least so far, have been quoted by each proposed title (i.e. like "Minish Realm", its been seen as "the realm of the Minish".
 * 3) There are many more important, pressing, and serious article issues with this wiki that would be a better use of time to fix than to focus hours of life disputing a widely-aloof and a who-cares-they-are-close-enough-to-each-other title. I'm just sayin'. =) 19:56, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right Pete, I was showing Chris the Game Script at GameFaq, normally I view text dumps in there and at ZL, but I was too lazy to download it. :P Well the quote should have been in the game script if it were something you would normally see in a playthrough, but I'm guessing its one of those 'press Select' for a hint type quotes; which would explain me having never seen it before. :D Cip pretty much summed up my thoughts, and it doesn't change anything. I'll archive this page later unless someone beats me to it. 10:52, 3 December 2009 (UTC)