User talk:Drake Clawfang

Edit warring
Hey Drake,

I understand you found Champion of Nayru's response to be antagonizing. However, you do not help the situation by responding in kind, and it does not justify entering an edit war.

It would be best if you made your case for the trivia at Talk:Dark Rites so that everyone could weigh in. It's fine for you to ask KrytenKoro to mediate, but keep in mind that, ultimately, it's the whole editor base that decides as a group what content gets to stay.

Please keep editing etiquette at heart when contributing. 07:31, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Understood, and my apologies. I was very irritated to see him so obviously talking down to me and jumping to reverting me again. If he reverts again I won't war back. On the matter of getting other opinions, do you have one to contribute? I'm not going to push for the point to stay if others feel it should go, but I think it has value. Drake Clawfang (talk) 09:59, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for understanding.
 * The connection you drew between the two trinities is logical and well explained. It's possible that there was an intended relation there... But I just think it's more likely to be a coincidence, and coincidences aren't really noteworthy. That said, I don't really feel strongly enough about it to take a real stance either way. I could take it or leave it, that's my honest opinion. 14:15, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, thank you. Drake Clawfang (talk) 17:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Literally just about to look at that
Small request: on this computer I don't have access to a lot of video-game related resources due to filters. Could I ask your assistance on getting whatever's in the text dumps regarding the flames (and Veran/Onox/Twinrova's plans if you have the time), and if you can find it, the Japanese names of the flames? I actually have a document at home from when I was a kid describing the rites as if it was a page in the Lesser Key of Solomon (because I make bad decisions), but again, it's at home.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:21, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll see what I can do. Drake Clawfang (talk) 17:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Okey-dokey, according to the Wikipedia article for the series in Japanese, Flame of Destruction is "滅びの炎", Flame of Sorrow is "嘆きの炎", and Flame of Despair is "絶望の炎". Googling that Japanese results in more hits for Zelda articles so I believe it's accurate. Now, the romaji, I'll keep looking.


 * Also a note, Google is translating the Flame of Sorrow's Japanese as "Flame of Grief", now if that's just an alternate translation of the Japanese that could also mean Sorrow or the Japanese specifically means Grief and they changed it in English, dunno. Drake Clawfang (talk) 17:50, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, scratch the above. Via some forums I instead found "ほろびの炎" for Destruction, "なげきの炎" for Sorrow/Grief, and "ぜつぼうの炎" for Despair. The websites mention someone named "jacensolo", if that name means anything to the community, textdumped the games and translated them, so I tracked down Japanese YouTube footage and it looks like these are the in-game terms. Voila. Drake Clawfang (talk) 18:13, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, analysis:


 * ほろび is Destruction, but the implication is not "to destroy", but more "to be destroyed". In my mind, that's very clearly an opposite of "to be powerful".
 * なげき is Grief, Lamentation, Sorrow. Eh, not so strong.
 * ぜつぼう is Despair, Hopelessness. Again, that's very clearly an opposite of courage to me -- giving up instead of braving your misfortune.
 * That, in conjunction with having to subvert the avatars/representatives of the goddesses by wrecking their demesne (Earth or Time) seems like the flames are pretty clearly meant to be blasphemies/opposites of the Golden Goddesses. That they turn a pure mortal into a dark god also seems like a blasphemy of the light god Hylia being turned into a pure mortal.
 * So, I would clarify the trivia note as follows:


 * The Dark Rites appear to be a ritual blaspheming the Golden Goddesses in order to accomplish an inversion of the advent of the mortal Zelda from the goddess Hylia. The represents the opposite of being powerful, and is lit by subverting the Earth, the domains of the Goddess Din; the  is lit by warping Time, the domain of the Goddess Nayru; the  represents the opposite of being courageous and standing against fear, the domain of the Goddess Farore. Furthermore, where the Goddesses allowed the divine Hylia descend to Hyrule as a virtuous mortal in order to protect the land, the Dark Rites force a pure mortal to ascend as a dark god in order to bring ruination. Finally, the pyres for the flames themselves are arranged in an equilateral triangle, much like the shrine for the Triforce.
 * Given, this goes a bit into assumption in order to get the point across, and makes a non-explicit conclusion, so it might work better as a theory. On the other hand, you could just pare back the more speculatory bits and keep it in trivia (or even the article itself, poss. the lead).
 * Any explicit quotes we can get from the game could also help add some citations so we can show support for this, but yeah, I think the note is very reasonable. It's basically the only way the Dark Rites make sense to me, honestly.KrytenKoro (talk) 15:11, 23 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Alright, thanks. I'm cool to peg it for the theory, that does seem more fitting. I'll adjust it accordingly now. Drake Clawfang (talk) 21:09, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Given the failure of this thing to stand on the theory requirements, seems fit to pare back the speculatory bits and just present the opposites.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:06, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Bah, I wash my hands of this madness, the guy is gonna be a prick about it and refuses to allow it as trivia either, and if it fails policy then oh well. Not worth the drama and edit warring just for a neat theory. Drake Clawfang (talk) 18:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I request you not use such a vulgar term to refer to people on this website. Policy is very important to maintain the quality of this website, I'm just enforcing the rules. Champion of Nayru (talk) 20:09, 25 October 2013 (UTC) Champion of Nayru
 * No, you're inflicting your opinions on others and refusing to listen to their own. And you have absolutely no place to speak to me of civility, I've seen your talk page. Drake Clawfang (talk) 21:27, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * We've been over this already. You are both out of line. Champion of Nayru, it is not for you to "enforce" rules. Drake, you are under no circumstances allowed to insult other editors on this wiki. If you do it again, your account will be temporarily barred from editing. 06:24, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * If you feel that way, I'll accept that. I don't edit here that much, not to be dismissive but just saying, so it wouldn't bother me that much. I apologize to you for the cursing, but not to him. He's been unapologetically self-righteous and condescending since this all began without any provocation, so I feel no need to be sorry to him. Drake Clawfang (talk) 14:38, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

This is going to stop and we're all going to go about our business and be friends. I get it that you're upset, but Caleb is trying to end this petty arguing, and when people continue to snipe at the others after someone tries to end an argument, it just prolongs it. I personally don't care what was said, but it's time to end this thing. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything. We as staff have better things to do than break up unproductive infighting. Just let it go and find a more productive outlet, please. 15:13, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree, I am done, the matter is settled and I have told others as such. CoN had to wag his finger at me though so I responded in turn, and we haven't said a word to the other since. I dunno who's arguing with who now or who you think is doing it. Drake Clawfang (talk) 18:26, 26 October 2013 (UTC)